A conversation with Mark Podlasly

John Valley: I’m John Valley, a partner in Osler’s Corporate Group and a co-author of the Diversity Disclosure Practices report. I’m pleased to welcome Mark Podlasly. Mark is a member of the Nlaka’pamux Nation in British Columbia, the Chief Sustainability Officer at the First Nations Major Projects Coalition, a national 170+ member First Nations organization dedicated to ensuring Indigenous environmental and economic values are incorporated into major projects in traditional territories. He’s also a board director at CIBC and Hydro One, serving on the audit and human resources committees, and a trustee of his First Nation’s mining revenue trust fund. Mark was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal by the Governor General of Canada for founding Teach for Canada, a not-for-profit organization that works with northern First Nations to recruit and support committed teachers. Thank you for joining me today, Mark. Looking forward to the conversation.

Mark Podlasly: Very happy to be here.

John Valley: We’ve seen a strong focus on diversity for a number of years now, and we’ve had reporting in particular on the representation of Indigenous people on boards since the amendments to the Canada Business Corporations Act in 2020. What trends have you been seeing? What are the key issues from an Indigenous perspective, when we think about the representation of Indigenous peoples on boards, given developments in society more generally?

Mark Podlasly: The big change in Canada has been the adoption of the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People, and in particular, the clauses in there about free, prior and informed consent of Indigenous people. This is required for proponents of major projects — be them energy, transportation, critical minerals — to obtain the consent of Indigenous people before they develop any projects.

From an Indigenous perspective, it’s important that companies and corporates at the highest level understand the dynamic of what that means: what is the risk and what is the opportunity for Canadian companies going into traditional territories to do development? Having an Indigenous person at the board level, from an Indigenous perspective, is vital to ensure that the projects are done properly in a cultural sense and an environmental sense and economic justice sense. And quite frankly, companies won’t be able to get their permits to build. They will have challenges raising capital from investors who are looking for proper outcomes at the other end, if they don’t have that awareness. An Indigenous board member provides that. And that’s why, from an Indigenous perspective, there’s keen interest in seeing that happen.

John Valley: So, we’ve seen in the report since the Canada Business Corporations Act was amended in 2020, some growth in the representation on boards by Indigenous people, but not an increase in absolute terms at the rate that we might have liked or expected. But is there a story there beyond the data that we should be thinking about?

Mark Podlasly: From the long-term perspective, from an Indigenous perspective, the growth of Indigenous directors in corporate Canada has been amazing. Twenty years ago, there were none of us on these boards, and now you’re starting to see more and more very qualified Indigenous people being recruited to serve in companies in every sector. And that’s phenomenal. From an Indigenous perspective, we understand that we have these rights in this country that have to be incorporated in commercial decisions. And in the past, that never happened. Having an Indigenous director now gives a company insight into what’s going on on the ground. Which when you think about it, is where you’d want to be if you were an investor, a developer, a proponent. And so we’re hopeful, from an Indigenous perspective. We are seeing more and more outreach from companies and recruiters, and we do think it’s getting better.

John Valley: And what can some of the organizations, whether it’s a project proponent, public company or otherwise, what can they do to try and help access the talent pool among the First Nations communities in which they operate, work and live?

Mark Podlasly: For companies to access Indigenous talent, they’re going to have to look beyond the traditional pools. In the past, that has meant looking around downtown Toronto or downtown Montréal, or in the urban centres. But you’re finding now a lot of the Indigenous talent is not there. They’re running multi-million dollar budgets, they’re engaging in all the same corporate decisions, but out in rural areas. That’s the big challenge. So, from an Indigenous perspective, you’re going to have to come to us. And that means going to the places where Indigenous people are already practicing these skill sets, and they’re not going to be in downtown urban centres. Not always. Sometimes, but not always.

John Valley: And in terms of, you talked about the change that we’ve seen, what have you noticed over the last number of years as you’ve engaged with boards, sat on boards, talked to some of your colleagues on boards in terms of the mindset and the approach with respect to diversity and, in particular, diversity beyond gender at the boardroom table?

Mark Podlasly: What I’ve found in my board roles is there’s curiosity from other directors about candidates who come from Indigenous communities. I think in this country, Canadians want to do the right thing. They want to be respectful and they want to be impactful. But in a Canadian sense, there’s always a reluctance to engage on topics that people feel that they may offend.

What I found in the boardrooms now is that people are asking the right questions. They’re curious and they don’t know how to access that information, short of actually meeting an Indigenous person. So what’s been great about the experiences for me so far on these boards has been that I’ve been able to share back what’s actually happening on the ground, contributing to the overall success of the company in its risk mitigation, its investment decisions, about what Indigenous people are hoping for and want to see, and from our perspective, that makes these projects better. It makes the Canadian economy better. It makes inclusion practical.

John Valley: Sitting where we are today, and with the results that we’ve seen in the report, which year over year are fairly flat, what do you think the next step is for companies looking to really drive forward on diversity generally, but Indigenous participation on their boards and in their organizations?

Mark Podlasly: I think the change you’re going to see going forward is that as more investment goes into those parts of the countries which have higher Indigenous populations and Indigenous rights, investors are going to want to see that the companies have addressed the challenges, the opportunities and, most importantly, the risk of delays or slowdowns from Indigenous rights in their investment decisions. Those investors are going to demand that there be inclusion of Indigenous perspectives at the highest level of these companies. I think that will change things faster than any legislation or any targets. And we’re starting to see this now from companies coming into our territories, not only from Canada, but from overseas, looking to get this right on the ground to reduce that risk. Corporate decision makers who have that insight in their companies at the decision-making table, at the boardroom level, will have a competitive advantage over those companies who do not.

John Valley: We’ve talked a bit about where companies can go to find Indigenous directors. Is there a growing interest among Indigenous peoples joining boards, and what are they doing?

Mark Podlasly: There are increasing number of Indigenous people seeking to become parts of boards and are trying to become visible. It’s not a one-way street. Indigenous people know that this is an opportunity for them personally and developmentally, and for the companies in their projects, so it’s not a one-way thing. Interest is growing.

John Valley: Are there any trends you’re seeing that may help facilitate a continued growth in the representation of Indigenous people on boards in Canada?

Mark Podlasly: Within Canada, if it were not for the population growth of Indigenous people, our population would be shrinking. Outside of immigration, it’s the only group in the country demographically that is growing, and it is by far the youngest. Most of the Indigenous population in Canada now is under 25 years of age, and while overall education levels still require more work, within that there is a talented group of Indigenous people in everything from Masters of Finance, CPA certifications, metallurgists, engineers, who are coming up rapidly, and one day these are all going to be prime candidates for boards. So things are changing.

John Valley: Mark, thank you very much for the time and for the conversation and the insight and perspective. We really appreciate you joining us and looking forward to continuing our conversations on this topic in the years to come.

Mark Podlasly: Looking forward to the conversation and the changes.